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Post by windlesaint on Mar 7, 2006 8:11:18 GMT -5
When South Melbourne moved to Sydney and Fitzroy went to Brisbane did their fans create a fuss?
Why were these teams selected. Where they historically crap and thus expendable or had they been good once and just fallen on hard times - like all teams do from time to time?
Why did Fitzroy go to Brisbane when there was a team there already? How come they didn't go to Canberra or some other similar place?
How come only Geelong have a team in Victoria other than Melbourne? Why not Ballarat or other large centres of population - or is Geelong much bigger than it looks on a map?
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Thomas
Junior Member
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Post by Thomas on Mar 7, 2006 18:17:07 GMT -5
Geelong is much bigger than it looks on the map, plus it is one of the oldest clubs in Victoria. I don't know about the Sydney-South Melbourne merger as I was only young at the time but the Fitzroy-Brisbane merger happened because it was either that or the Fitzroy club would have folded. They were also absolute shite on the field too.
I do remember a bit of grumbling at the time but most 'roy fans knew what would happen if they didn't embrace the merger. As it is it guarantees that Brisbane have a huge fan base in both Brisbane and Melbourne.
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Basil2
Full Member
Posts: 3,451
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Post by Basil2 on Mar 9, 2006 2:41:39 GMT -5
When South Melbourne moved to Sydney and Fitzroy went to Brisbane did their fans create a fuss? I think they did, but obviously not enough to stop the move. I think their demise was long term - the following extract from the afl site gives you an idea of what went wrong for these sides & why they located: The Grand Final of 1945, together with the first Semi-Final in 1970 and Elimination final of 1977 were the only finals the Swans played during their remaining 45 years based at Albert Park – but they failed in all three of these crucial engagements. Of the 12 competing VFL clubs, the Swans finished in 8th place or better on only eight occasions over that 45 year period. These statistics, however, mask the magnificent achievements of the players of that period. The leanest years of the Swans also produced nine Brownlow Medals. The record of 13 medals (by 11 players) is the greatest number achieved by any club in the history of VFL/AFL football. Many administrations through the 1960s and 1970s worked feverishly to keep the Swans afloat. However, diminishing attendances and membership nearly led to financial extinction. Change was a necessity, and club stalwarts Graeme John, Jack Marks and VFL President Alan Aylett cast their eyes further than the confines of Victoria. Similar reasons to the above + strengthen the Brisbane team. Geelong - see Thomas' post. Ballarat or another large population centre. Vic. is a small state so it doesn't take long to get to Melbourne. I think basically the foundation clubs were probably all Melbourne sides & that's how things developed. Canberra - the afl was beaten to the punch by first the raiders & then the Brumbies. Rl & ru are generally more popular in the areas around Canberra as well. People tend to think of NSW as rl territory & that is true, but the southern sections of the state in an area along the Victoria-NSW border named the Riverina are afl strongholds because of the proximity to Melbourne. |
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Post by windlesaint on Mar 9, 2006 3:12:37 GMT -5
Looks like St Kilda were lucky then - apparently they've finished bottom a record 26 times - that can't be far off 25% of all tournaments!
Been checking out a map of Melbourne - all these places are very close to each other. Overlapping catchment areas almost - particularly the Carlton - Collingwood - Hawthorn type area.
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Basil2
Full Member
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Post by Basil2 on Mar 9, 2006 5:38:35 GMT -5
Looks like St Kilda were lucky then - apparently they've finished bottom a record 26 times - that can't be far off 25% of all tournaments! Been checking out a map of Melbourne - all these places are very close to each other. Overlapping catchment areas almost - particularly the Carlton - Collingwood - Hawthorn type area. Bit like Sydney in a way. Many of the inner suburbs were once working class areas (close to factories etc). These days these suburbs have become "gentrified" & afl/rl are not as popular amongst a youth who are better off & can succeed by further education etc. In Sydney Newtown is an example - the area has prospered, became a trendy inner city suburb instead of a working class suburb with the result that Newtown was dropped as a first grade nrl side in the early 80s. Supporting an nrl side is a tough business. The third largest city in NSW (& an rl stronghold) could not sustain the Steelers who were basically taken over by St George. St George of course got one of the best rl nurseries in the world - LUke Bailey, Jason Ryles, Matt Cooper are all Illawarra juniors & Kangaroos. |
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Post by bizzaro on Mar 20, 2006 1:07:05 GMT -5
Looks like St Kilda were lucky then - apparently they've finished bottom a record 26 times - that can't be far off 25% of all tournaments! Been checking out a map of Melbourne - all these places are very close to each other. Overlapping catchment areas almost - particularly the Carlton - Collingwood - Hawthorn type area. One difference with the 2 sports is the expansion at the top level. You will notice in the VFL/AFL there are no teams in the "newer" suburbs i.e. the areas outside the inner city. The clubs that are there now are pretty much the ones that were there when the competition started around 1890 something. In the Sydney RL - there was continual expansion to new areas. The original teams in 1908 were Norths, Souths, Easts, Wests, Balmain, Newtown, Glebe and Newcastle (who left after 1 or 2 years to start their own competition). New teams in new suburbs were added fairly reguarly as Sydney expanded including Canterbury and St George in the 1930s, Manly and Parramatta in 1947 and Cronulla and Penrith in 1967. Because of these new clubs in outer areas - it was obviously harder for the inner city teams to keep crowds and players - so as people moved to outer suburbs to buy a house - there kids would end up supporting the new teams rather than the old - something that the inner-city AFL teams in Melbourne were protected from. |
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